Articles  Privacy

 

The End of Italy

Why should we be surprised Italy is falling apart? With dozens of languages and a hastily made union, it was barely a real country to begin with.

BY DAVID GILMOUR | NOVEMBER 15, 2011

Italy is falling apart, both politically and economically. Faced with a massive debt crisis and defections from his coalition in Parliament, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi -- the most dominant political figure in Rome since Benito Mussolini -- tendered his resignation last week. Yet Italy's problems go deeper than Berlusconi's poor political performance and his notorious peccadilloes: Their roots lie in the country's fragile sense of a national identity in whose founding myths few Italians now believe.

Italy's hasty and heavy-handed 19th-century unification, followed in the 20th century by fascism and defeat in World War II, left the country bereft of a sense of nationhood. This might not have mattered if the post-fascist state had been more successful, not just as the overseer of the economy but as an entity with which its citizens could identify and rely on. Yet for the last 60 years, the Italian Republic has failed to provide functioning government, tackle corruption, safeguard the environment, or even protect its citizens from the oppression and violence of the Mafia, the Camorra, and the other criminal gangs. Now, despite the country's intrinsic strengths, the Republic has shown itself incapable of running the economy.

It took four centuries for the seven kingdoms of Anglo-Saxon England to finally become one in the 10th, yet nearly all the territories of the seven states that made up 19th-century Italy were molded together in less than two years, between the summer of 1859 and the spring of 1861. The pope was stripped of most of his dominions, the Bourbon dynasty was exiled from Naples, the dukes of central Italy lost their thrones, and the kings of Piedmont became monarchs of Italy. At the time, the speed of Italian unification was regarded as a kind of miracle, a magnificent example of a patriotic people uniting and rising up to eject foreign oppressors and home-bred tyrants.

However, the patriotic movement that achieved Italian unification was numerically small -- consisting largely of young middle-class men from the north -- and would have had no chance of success without foreign help. A French army expelled the Austrians from Lombardy in 1859; a Prussian victory enabled the new Italian state to acquire Venice in 1866.

In the rest of Italy, the Risorgimento (or Resurgence) wars were not so much struggles of unity and liberation as a succession of civil wars. Giuseppe Garibaldi, who had made his name as a soldier in South America, fought heroically with his red-shirted volunteers in Sicily and Naples in 1860, but their campaigns were in essence a conquest by northern Italians of southern Italians, followed by the imposition of northern laws on the southern state known as the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies. Yet the southern city of Naples did not feel liberated -- only 80 citizens of Italy's largest city volunteered to fight for Garibaldi -- and its people soon became embittered that the city had exchanged its role as the 600-year-old capital of an independent kingdom for the status of a provincial center. Today, its status remains reduced, and southern GDP is barely half what it is in the regions of the north.

United Italy skimmed through the normal painstaking process of nation-building and became a unitary state that made few concessions to local sentiment. Take Germany, by comparison: After the unification of 1871, the new Reich was ruled by a confederation that included four kingdoms and five grand duchies. The Italian peninsula, by contrast, had been conquered in the name of the Piedmontese King Victor Emmanuel II and remained an aggrandized version of the kingdom, boasting the same monarch, the same capital (Turin), and even the same constitution. The application of Piedmontese law over the peninsula made many of the kingdom's new inhabitants feel more like conquered subjects than a liberated people. Violent uprisings throughout the southern regions in the 1860s were savagely repressed.

ANDREAS SOLARO/AFP/Getty Images

 SUBJECTS: EUROPE
 

David Gilmour is a British historian and the author of award-winning biographies of George Curzon, Rudyard Kipling, and Giuseppe di Lampedusa. His most recent book, The Pursuit of Italy: A History of a Land, Its Regions, and Their Peoples, was published this month.

KATHRYNJWHITT

2:53 AM ET

November 16, 2011

No more pizza

I am gonna miss their pizza.

But seriously I certainly hope it is not the end for Italy.

 

GREGALOUI

5:41 PM ET

November 16, 2011

And no more pastas!

I love their pastas too! Please don't die Italy!
I hope it's gonna be fine, we all love Italy!

code promo 3 suisses

 

SHINIH

7:53 AM ET

November 19, 2011

Indeed, macaroni and pizza

Indeed, macaroni and pizza are the most delicious food in the word.
I hope that never become true, Italy Viva!Viva!
download ipad movies
Viva! Italy...

 

TANZASWERTON

11:30 PM ET

November 21, 2011

pizza led recovery

Can anyone say pizza led recovery, first in economic history. We are all linked seo melbourne to their success or failure. Let's hope they can make it out the other side.

 

STEWART NUSBAUMER

12:45 PM ET

November 25, 2011

Relax

Pizza was first created in Brooklyn, so don't worry. Evidently the Italians had something called tomato pies, but it took the chaos of Brooklyn to evolve that into a pizza pie.

 

ELIZABETH FITZGERALD

3:31 AM ET

November 16, 2011

Oh lovely !

What a treat to read an article that simply flows elegantly from a well informed mind.
Oh delight !

 

KATERINA PEKOVA

10:00 PM ET

November 17, 2011

Indeed, a well written article

Berlusconi quit? Then they must face some serious problems if the guy couldn't handle it anymore. I believe that Italy's economic problems resign in their culture, rather than in the differences of languages or their past presidents. A well written article and a quick history lesson on Italy by the way.

 

NICOLAS19

5:34 AM ET

November 16, 2011

hoax

Oh, please. Whenever a nation is doing badly for whatever reason, there are always halfwits auguring the country's imminent dismemberment. So was the case for France, Germany, Switzerland, Spain or Russia for similar reasons. Moreover, there are outright idiots here in FP, too, who want to carve up Pakistan for "being a failure". To dissolve a country, it takes more than just such a shallow survey.

Now more to the point. Italy is a diverse country with many cultural entities, who speak their own dialects and have their own customs. If this would warrant the breakup of a country, the US would be in tatters since day one. I bet a Hawaiian native, a Hispano-American from San Diego or African-American from Los Angeles have much-much less in common with a WASP from Baltimore than a Sicilian with a Milanese in terms for language, religion and values. This reasoning is false.

Italian is an imposed language, true, but having an overall, "official" language over the local languages is nothing uncommon. Again, take France, Spain or Germany, where few speak the "official" language at home, they use Basque, Occitan or Alemannic instead. Still, no cause for disruption.

Quoting Giustino Fortunato (whose family ruled the Two Sicilies before the unification) on the Risorgimento is like asking the Bourbons whether they liked the French Revolution or not.

Instead of relying on Lampedusa - whose own views are often conflicting with the rushed conclusions of this article - the author could have bothered to look up other sources on the Risorgimento, the likes of de Amicis, who represented the graceful unified Italy. The article struggles to find causes for Italy's suggested doom (the Ethiopian conflict, really? how about WWI, where Italy fought and won as a unified nation?), grabbing half-facts and dubious declarations to make its case. Poor.

 

SAM FROM CALIFORNIA

10:39 AM ET

November 16, 2011

WWI

The Italian government messed World War 1 up quite badly (though granted, most nations made egregious strategic errors during that conflict). Mussolini saw his nationalism in part as a way to restore pride after Italy gained basically nothing during WWI except for a lot of dead men and a couple of old Austrian towns.

 

CHRISTIANPONDER1

1:09 PM ET

November 16, 2011

Interesting

I appreciate the reply here, as many Americans tend to think European countries are all homogenous because they tend to have relatively similar skin color. Like diamond cuts and fingerprints we're all unique, even if our characteristics are similar to those in our region our country. It's a good argument that a Sicilian and a Milanese can be as diverse as two people with different colored skin living in Los Angeles and Baltimore.

 

LIUTPRAND_OF_CREMONA

2:58 PM ET

November 16, 2011

Well said, Nicolas It would

Well said, Nicolas

It would be easy, especially now, to make similar alarmist judgments about any number of European countries: will Belgium fall apart? Its language gulf is even more drastic than Italy's and it hasn't had a real government for almost 2 years. Will Spain see increasing federalism and demands for autonomy from Catalonia, to say nothing of its Basque and Asturian regions, both of whom have significant cultural and linguistic differences from Castile?

Just as an example: Germany was unified by force in the 1870, and faced considerable internal tensions from a Catholic-Protestant divide and a heavy-handed domination by Prussia over the other confederation members. After two world wars and Soviet occupation, there were serious advocates of maintaining a divided Germany even recently, such as Mitterand and Thatcher.

Moreover, whatever the centrifugal forces in its history, there is also a strong tradition of advocates for a united Italy. The author of this article compares Italy in the 5th century B.C. to Greece, and notes that the Italian peninsula was divided into dozens of ethno-linguistic groups. This is true. However he then moves on to the Middle Ages, and Renaissance, to make the same point, placidly ignoring the Roman Empire and the spirit of Italian unity it inspired in generations of Italian authors and intellectuals from Virgil to Dante to Macchiavelli to the present day. Italy's woes are profound, certainly, but they strike me as economic and political, rather than stemming from an impassable cultural divide between North and South.

The flaws in this article aside, I do wonder if an increase in federalism and local autonomy represents the future for many European nations, especially in Western Europe. It's hard to imagine compact nation-states such as Denmark, the Netherlands or Portugal move in that direction, but the UK has already seen devolution of power, and Spain and Belgium are likely candidates for similar developments. Obviously, though, Europe's leaders have more important concerns at present than reimagining 19th century borders and political divisions....

 

NICOLAS19

5:24 AM ET

November 17, 2011

thank you for the positive comments

A few points to add:

- Italy was disorganized during WWI, true, but if you manage to do less badly than the enemy, you still win (example: USSR vs. Germany in WWII). Gaining a major port like Trieste still counts as an important prize, although less than the Italians expected after such a bloodshed.

- As for the North-South debate, it will still be going on for some time. There will always be Milanese complaining about lazy Sicilians, industrious Westphalians complaining about backwards East-Germans, booming Catalans about stagnant Andalusians, etc. Still, not enough to break up a country.

 

OCCAM

6:10 PM ET

November 17, 2011

Well, Pakistan IS a failed

Well, Pakistan IS a failed state, but other than that, everything else is spot on.

 

ANDREADMERCILESS

11:05 AM ET

November 16, 2011

You must be hysterically politically correct and truthophobic.

"Its attitude to the south, xenophobic and even racist as it sometimes is, demonstrates the truth that Italy has never felt itself to be a properly united country."

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz. The more honest, industrious, and responsible North is 'xenophobic' and 'racist' because it wants to split from people in the South who tend to be lazier and more corrupt? So, a hardworking people who don't wanna be leeched dry by bums are evil?

But, let's try to use terms such as 'racism' and 'xenophobia' more responsibly. 'Race' means race, and 'ism' means belief. So, race-ism means or should really mean 'belief in races and possibly racial differences'? Could there be some degree of racial differences between Northern Italians and Southern Italians. Probably, since Northern Italians tend to be more Germanic while Southern Italians tend to be more Latin and mixed with North African blood. Could this have an impact on IQ and temperament? Possibly. A sensible person thinks about these topics instead of just screaming 'racist' like a hysterical little child.
One thing for sure, Northern European nations tend to be more diligent and responsible than Southern European ones. It could be cultural, but might not some of it be biological? (To be sure, some might object to the cultural explanation as well since it implies that some cultures are intrinsically superior to others, at least as the basis for creating modern societies. I mean that would be culture-ist!!! Didn't wonderful multi-culturalism teach us that all cultures are of equal worth and value? So, if United States had been founded by medieval Arabs or Buddhist Burmese, it would have turned into the same prosperous modern nation it is today, and saying otherwise would be culture-ist!!!) Though both Northern Europeans and Southern Europeans belong to the white race, there may be some intra-racial differences. Come to think of it, most Arabs qualify as 'caucasians', but there seems to be IQ differences between Middle East Arabs and Europeans, with European natural IQ being 5 to 8 pts higher. Also, there's genuine IQ difference between European whites and Ashkenazi Jews(white Jews) of around 10-15 points, which explains why Jews are so much more successful than white gentiles. In America, Jews are 2% of the population but own close to 40% of the wealth. Some say it's all matter of culture than biology, but this view is no longer tenable. IQ tests have time and again proven higher Jewish IQ. If this view is race-ist, then race-ism can be a good thing in pointing out the truth. Other than IQ differences, they may be temperamental differences which account for why some races tend to be more sober than others. Latins and Greeks seem to be more fiery and hot-tempered than, say, Nordics.

Not all race-ism is alike. There is truthful race-ism and false radical racism of the Nazis and Nation of Islam. Saying that any race-ist view is akin to Nazism is like saying all socialist ideas are like Maoism or Stalinism. But pointing out that Ashkenazi Jews are smarter(and bound to be richer and more powerful) or that West Africans are stronger(and bound to win more medals in track and be more dangerous as street criminals against weaker races) is not the same thing as saying 'Aryan race is superior in every way to all other races' or 'evil scientist Yakub created white folks from a skin graft of blacks'. That is like saying supporting progressive taxation and public libraries is akin to the Cambodian Killing Fields or Stalin's forced famine in the Ukraine.
So, let's not get hysterical like silly politically brainwashed children.

As for 'xenophobia', it does exist in places like Zimbabwe, North Korea, Burma, and other nations. But Northern Italians aren't phobic. Phobia is an extreme irrational fear of something harmless. Northern Italians are not scared of some fictional bogeyman or small white mouse. They are deeply upset--and have every right to be--with the maddening state of affairs in Southern Italy, which is much more likely to be controlled by laziness, incompetence, corruption, crime. Also, tons of useless immigrants from Africa enter into Italy from the South. With native Italian population decreasing and with masses of Africans/Arabs entering or invading the nation, Italy may in the future be even a bigger fiction than it is today. It might end up being just an extension of North Africa. But oh my, if any Italian is upset over such prospect, he's an Eveeeeeeeeeeel 'racist' and 'xenophobe'. (But no problem of Zionists insist on Israel remaining a Jewish state. That is noble and courageous.)

Anyway, if we're gonna use hysterical terms like 'racist' and 'xenophobic' to describe Northerners who've had enough of Southern incompetence and backwardness, why shouldn't we use some nasty words to describe Southern parasitism, corruption, and criminality? How about words such as 'communist'(for wanting to leech off Northern wealth), 'thuggish'(for the endemic culture of crime), 'barbaric'(for its vast numbers of brutal and nasty invaders from the Middle East and Africa), and 'workophobic'(for the sheer laziness of the people who'd rather cheat and steal than work honesty and pay taxes).

Another thing. We've all noticed how Blue State whites in America mock and sneer at Red State whites as 'dumb', 'retarded', 'backward', 'rednecks', 'stupid'? How about all those Hollywood movies made by liberal Jews where Southern white males are the scum of the Earth(while blacks, of course, are depicted as saints, even though most of the most horrible interracial crime in the South is black-on-white, a truth that is brushed out of national news like history was brushed out of books during Stalinism)?
I wonder if David Gilmour finds such attitudes 'racist' and 'xenophobic'.
No, I suppose those kinds of 'racism' and 'xenophobia' are perfectly okay since Blue State whites are progressively 'racist' against reactionary 'racism' and liberally 'xenophobic' against conservative 'xenophobia'.

Well, using that logic, maybe Northern Italians can make the same case. You see, they are angry with the South because Southerners just happen to be more reactionary, traditional, patriarchal, tribal, and provincial. You see, the North tried to forge a new united and progressive Italy, but recalcitrant Southerners chose to stick to their old corrupt ways and refused to work and build up new industries like in the North.
So you see, it's a case of progressive 'racism' and liberal 'xenophobia'.
Now that I explained it all so clearly, I'm sure Gilmour will praise the attitudes of Northerners.

 

SAGAS

1:33 PM ET

November 16, 2011

Hilarious

I'm not going to dignify the masturbatory online "renegade" blather that is little more than the ever eye rolling world of internet racism and it's assemblage of badly stitched together psuedo science and really really terrible amateur levels of historical knowledge/anthropology. Any turd can look like gold if you wrap it in enough feelings of persecuted alternative underground descriptions. But a turd it unquestionably is.

But really we have a major fact issue here first and foremost. Are you aware that the Kingdom of Two Sicilies was far and away the most prosperous of the Italian states prior to unification? That the northern shift wrecked it's economy and lead to mass emmigration?
Emmigration to......the White Northern US you later used as another example to back yourself up? Italian Americans (almost all of southern Italian stock) are the majority ethnic group in New Jersey, Rhode Island, Connecticut, and New York, running neck and neck with another group whom I'm sure you're quick to defend prejudice against. The Irish.
This uber prosperous part of the US, that yes, often hates on the South (as the South hates on the North). I should know. I'm of both these backgrounds, and a lifelong Yankee.
But far be it from me, guilty as I am of this feeling toward the South, to deny that there's something childish and pigheaded going on in the process.

I really have no idea how someone like you crawled out of your Stormfront cave and decided respectable people on a respectable website wanted to hear anything you had to say, but do go back there immediately and save us all the groan.

 

ZESTYBEEF

3:48 PM ET

November 16, 2011

Hoo boy is this kooky!

This guy's "race-ism" is straight out of the 19th-century! Why not justify your ravings with phrenology while you're at it?

 

FRANF

9:16 AM ET

November 18, 2011

The sons of Bossi Umberto

"Northern Italians tend to be more Germanic while Southern Italians tend to be more Latin and mixed with North African blood. Could this have an impact on IQ and temperament? Possibly."

You are proving the point in the article. One just have to read your post to realise that the words "xenophobic" and "racist" have been used appropriately indeed.

Cultural and economic differences, real or (in this case largely) imagined, do not justify insulting language and ignorant arguments (which, BTW, you express in far too many words).

I suggest you to read the classic "Guns Germs and Steel" to inform yourself on the matters of race and IQ.

 

SREIN

12:21 PM ET

November 16, 2011

Italy's crisis

How many Italians named Mario does it take to fix the Eurozone crisis? With Mario Draghi at the helm of the ECB and Mario Monti appointed prime minister of Italy, the answer is -- it is too soon to tell. Mr. Draghi has the longer- term task; the more urgent one falls on the shoulders of Mr. Monti. He simply must prioritize economic growth, which is Italy's great weakness. But reforming Italy is harder than it looks. Italy's borrowing costs are already retreating, but not by much. At an auction on Monday of $3 billion worth of five-year bonds, it went as well as expected -- at a yield of 6.29 percent. The auction sent two important messages, though -- that Italy is not shut out of the capital markets and that the immediate threat to Mr. Monti's plans are higher interest payments. There is little Monti can do about the markets. He should concentrate on what he can change, Italy's dismal economic growth, even in Online Marketing. Wages and costs continue to rise, meaning Italy has lost competitiveness as quickly as countries such as Ireland and Portugal. Mr. Monti must set Italy's entrepreneurs free. Immediate labor market reforms to address the high cost of unemployment would be a good start. Italy's debt ratio is 120 percent of gross domestic product. Merely stabilizing it at that level is not enough. It should be reduced to below 100 percent, for starters. Economic growth helps, but Mr. Monti should not shy away from a wealth tax. After years of evasion and denial, Italians need to start helping themselves. I'm Stuart Kirk.

 

BEINGTHERE

1:53 PM ET

November 16, 2011

Case study in why "fun" leaders not always best

That amazing country is a case study for those who claim character doesn't count when voters are electing their leaders. No intention to moralize, but maybe we are waking up as a global force to comprehend the severity of our situation - financial, culture, social and political - and it's time for voters to rethink their love of leaders who live their lives too much in public and are often celebrated and rewarded for it. Think Bill Clinton whom we allowed to be president for two terms and the scary trend of Newt Gingrich coming to the GOP forefront.

Italy is too rich in history, culture and culinary arts to go away. And there's nothing more spectacular than its scenery, especially Lake Como. But let's hope Monti will take its situation more seriously than the buffoon Silvio Berlusconi. Why did the people tolerate him as long as they did?

 

MASSIMO_512

2:45 PM ET

November 16, 2011

Italy

Italy has 2000 years of history and has passed testing much more difficult. Italy will rise stronger than before.

 

DELMONTE01

2:15 PM ET

November 18, 2011

Only if...

They get out of the EU, default on the debt and start over. And lets not forget, put those parasite bankers in jail where they belong.

Vince

 

SARK7366

3:31 PM ET

November 16, 2011

Poor Article

This article is pretty sloppy, and, sorry to say, but the author clearly doesn't have a very good grasp of history. For instance, in his argument that the Italian unification process was flawed, he cites the fact that it needed foreign help to succeed and that there was only a small group of people active in the revolution itself. The American Revolution would not have succeeded without French help, and it's commonly known that the entire population was not behind the movement, and there were even a significant number of Americans (as many as a 1/3 of the country) who actually actively fought against the independence movement (Tories). Does that point to America being a flawed concept as a country?

Finally, the author's usage of Anglo-Saxon England's unification as a comparison to Italy's 19th century unification is laughable. The concept of nationalism and the nation-state didn't exist until the 19th century, and any remote idea of it only appeared during the renaissance. Thus using medieval England as a means of comparison in the context of the nation-state and nationalism is simply useless. It would be like drawing comparisons on the topic of Communism involving the Soviet Union and the principality of Moscow, hundreds of years before the idea of Communism even existed. A much better comparison to Italy would have been 19th century Germany, which unified at the same time as Italy, but I guess that would have been inconvenient for the author since Germany is functioning perfectly fine as a nation-state.

 

BRAUERR31

6:48 PM ET

November 16, 2011

The Euro Is To Blame

When it comes down to it, the entire Euro-based currency is one of the main reasons that countries (in Europe) stay in depressions for so long. The fact of the matter is that it is impossible (nearly) for a country to recover when they cannot control the supply of their own money - thus affecting the interest rates. Perhaps they should tax businesses, especially online business ideas.

 

TOPNOTCH

11:20 PM ET

November 16, 2011

So sad

I really hope Italy can pull through. I mean being unified in 1861 and with it being the world's 24th most developed country and not to mention the quality of life being in the top ten in the world. These are some impressive statistics what's one more battle. Pull through Italy!!
gout-home-remedies-report

 

JOPUTHIYAPARAMBIL

1:18 AM ET

November 17, 2011

Then, India will divide into

Then, India will divide into how many countries....?

More than 50 I guess...

 

THINGEYRI

10:37 AM ET

November 17, 2011

Good point! thingeyri from

Good point! thingeyri from Iceland

 

VAHID

5:56 AM ET

November 17, 2011

Shallow Article

unfortunately in the anglo-saxon world of journalism the shallow viewpoints like this are not uncommon.maybe it is just pat of the greater euroscepticism campaign aimed at protecting the british choice for the "services sector" against the actual culture of production from the mainland Europe which also reflects in such tendencies as resisting the European proposed Robin hood tax on the financial sector etc. I wonder if this author has ever travelled around in Europe or just seen the situation in the high stand point of the today's British media! he mentions the ancient Roman civilization and fails to add that most of the current European cities created by Romans including Londinium were highly multi-ethnic and divers and yet the Roman empire lasted for centuries with great success precisely due to this great diversity, if we could link that in any way to the current world. By the way the Greek did not have such a rooted sense of self conscience claimed here as being "Greek" they were rather Athenians and Spartans etc with strict citizenship rights linked to their towns and local loyalties... in the modern world Europe the fact that Italy has been the fifth industrial power and leading the way in many political, industrial, artistic, cultural, culinary etc etc etc ways does say something about the role the country had in "civilizing" the western world based on "some" common shared markers of identity similar to many of the modern day states. the last sentence on the federalism though is an interesting argument put forward by the likes of Machiavelli and Rousseau who insistently sustained that the only viable political union of comunitas are the small city states or regions in modern terms.

 

OCCAM

6:32 PM ET

November 17, 2011

The UK, the author's home

The UK, the author's home country, is diverse. The UK was forged by politicians. The UK is feeling less and less united. If you see the end of Italy, you certainly shouldn't balk at the end of the UK.

 

NATEG

7:16 PM ET

November 17, 2011

Not convinced

While this article offers a grand tour of Italian history and culture, I am unconvinced that the differences in dialect in 1860 Italy account for Italy's current problems, or prevent their solution.

The US was not exactly happily united in the 1860's, and American's speak many regional dialects to this day. The differences in wealth and culture between Massachusetts and Mississippi are of the same order of magnitude as the differences between Milan and Naples.

While Italy's economic problems certainly seem to have a cultural component, that doesn't mean that Italy's heterogeneity, per se, is the core issue.

 

DORAGUA

6:02 AM ET

November 18, 2011

The end of Italy

Are you serious? really isn't a joke??
The banality of this analysis ist's equal to his lack of knowledge and commonplaces.
But, just to reply you with the same "sophisticated style", what about UK? What about Scottish and their language? They would separate from London immediately! But especially what about Ulster? Did you forget something about (again) their language and about the only Western European civil war in the 20th century (after WW2) - ops it wasn't in Italy!!!!
Cheers

 

BUNBURRY

8:15 AM ET

November 18, 2011

italy

What Italy probably misses most is Italians. Whether it be the failure to accomplish the goals of Risorgimento, the lack of adequate political and industrial management, the never ending story of single selfishness vs the scope of a country as a whole, it cannot be disputed that we are losing pace, growth and future. I prefere to rely on Monti than on pizzas, but eventually if wealthy countries survive on fish and chips and burger kings, why should Italy ever go bankrupt ?

 

FRANF

8:54 AM ET

November 18, 2011

Subtle differences

Many things bring modern Italians together. Including suspicion of ANY form of government and a penchant for electing a "court of dwarfs and dancers" (una corte di nani e ballerine). Unfortunately.

 

ROSSEEM

11:06 AM ET

November 18, 2011

pathetic

what a pathetic oversimplification this article is. And just a couple of months ago another British academic (C. Duggan) pontified on Italian history :

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_IL_DUCES_DUDS?SITE=PAPIT&SECTION=NATIONAL&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

with grossly inaccurate statements about the situation at the end of WWII

The truth is that being a native English-speaking author gives you often undeserved credit, indeed incentivating the proliferation of 'experts' on just about anything. After all, where are you going to find an Italian historian capable of writing with the same punch?

 

BALKAN_FALCON

1:54 PM ET

November 18, 2011

Provacatriuve conclusion way off base

The article raises some overlooked issues and dispels the myth held by Anglo-Saxons about Italy's homogeneity.

BUT, anyone that is from continental Europe is familiar with this kind of diversity. It exists in EVERY European country. Even tiny countries like Croatia have to deal with these regional differences.

The idea that Italy will just fall apart is way overblown. Italians still have enough of a common identity to make it work. Plus they are smart enough to know that they have to stick together in the end. I mean what is the advantage of splitting up the way the USSR and Yugoslavia did in the 1990s? Most people in these newly independent countries agree that this was a disaster.

Italy swill chug along. Don't discount the fact that they still have enough of a common identity (and also importantly common religion). Maybe with more federalism and more autonomy for its regions.

I think more of the social and economic discontent will be directed at non-European immigrant -- who are really changing the cultural landscape in cities in the north. GO to any train station in the north and you will see what I mean.

 

TERMPAPERS

2:54 AM ET

November 19, 2011

Term Papers

The comments are amusing but the post is really informative, thank you for sharing such information with us. Keep it up and well done.
Term Papers

 

MADDY31

3:23 AM ET

November 19, 2011

Silvio Berlusconi

Silvio Berlusconi is such a unique character. The owner of AC Milan and the prime minister of Italy. He did whatever he wanted and no one cared until recently. How he got away with it for so long is beyond me.

Maddy @ http://cnafacts.com

 

SUPERMEGAULTRAMAN

10:23 PM ET

November 19, 2011

VIVA VENIZIA!!!

POWER TO THE GONDOLA!!

 

MANXMAN

9:08 AM ET

November 20, 2011

ManxHaven

Silvio Berlusconi was a man drunk on the power of politics and the food that came with it - with so many court cases, allegations of infidelity - he has made Italy look bad in ways other state heads could only look on in horror and think - id have been out on my ass long ago. mabye he will end in a Manx Haven to end his days having his parties and dodging court cases..
Politicians are a strange breed indeed - seek power - gain power - get corrupted by power.

 

TEAMMATE

11:08 AM ET

November 20, 2011

Italy will progress as usual

Italy has a strong history and I have seen people using latest technologies such as laptops, smartphone, tablet pc more and more in their day to day life. The fast growing technical savvy country will come back on its original track soon.

 

REBORN

3:43 PM ET

November 20, 2011

The end of Silvio Berlusconi

Italy will not experience the destruction of Roma for the second time only because the conditions are described from this article. This is just a leadership problem who take a wrong policy.

 

THE TRAVELER

8:50 PM ET

November 20, 2011

A Country of Small Countries Located in a Large Country of ...

It's an interesting concept to see a country (Italy) that is an example of the challenges that it faces in belonging to basically another country, the EU. To study and find a way to make it all work could lead someone to drink.

The key is not to fixate on the differences but on the similarities and figure out a way to make it work. Just some random thoughts as I get ready to travel back to Europe.

 

JESSEK

8:04 AM ET

November 21, 2011

If Greece survived their crisis, any country can

I've seen Greece cope with their financial and political crisis, and I'm sure that I'm not the only one who was very impressed with their sustainability. If they got out of their mess, Italy will sure find a decent solution for theirs. with all due respect to Greece and all... In Vitro Fertilization

 

NELSON27

6:28 PM ET

November 29, 2011

easssyyy.

The beginning of this article to me seemed a bit extreme and like quite a hypothesis that Italy was declining due to a "lack of national identity". I would argue that they in fact had an extremely strong national identity, and still do to this day. Furthermore, i don't buy into this concept their "lack of national identity" has a strong correlation with their economic demise. I think that to get back on track the Italians need to go to a . Regardless of the situation, it appears as if Italy will be the next Greece soon enough. I don't think that their national identity should be the main concern at this point in time, rather their economy.

 

NELSON27

6:28 PM ET

November 29, 2011

easssyyy.

The beginning of this article to me seemed a bit extreme and like quite a hypothesis that Italy was declining due to a "lack of national identity". I would argue that they in fact had an extremely strong national identity, and still do to this day. Furthermore, i don't buy into this concept their "lack of national identity" has a strong correlation with their economic demise. I think that to get back on track the Italians need to go to a . Regardless of the situation, it appears as if Italy will be the next Greece soon enough. I don't think that their national identity should be the main concern at this point in time, rather their economy.

 

DITRBIKER

5:12 AM ET

December 1, 2011

I really don't see the way

I really don't see the way how protesting will save the country from huge debts. If you owe trillions of dollars, street clashes will not change it on better. It should find the way how to survive the collapse of economy. Unfortunately, Western people lived very luxury...
-------------------------------------------------
dirt bike videos

 

DITRBIKER

5:13 AM ET

December 1, 2011

I really don't see the way

I really don't see the way how protesting will save the country from huge debts. If you owe trillions of dollars, street clashes will not change it on better. It should find the way how to survive the collapse of economy. Unfortunately, Western people lived very luxury...
-------------------------------------------------
dirt bike videos

 

LTOMADA

5:32 PM ET

December 1, 2011

i'll tell you a few things

i'll tell you a few things mr. Gilmour, go learn some italian history, live there for a few years and learn to understand the italian way of thinking and being, then, and only then, you may write something about the Italy.

Also, to all of you others, do the same thing and spare the world of your stupid comments....

 

KJWILSON

10:25 PM ET

December 10, 2011

Italian unification was numerically small

This information is pretty sloppy, and, unfortunately, however the author clearly does not have an excellent grasp of history. For example, in the argument the Italian unification process was flawed, he cites the truth that it needed foreign assistance to succeed which there is merely a select few of individuals mixed up in revolution itself. The American Revolution will not have succeeded on how to make your dick biggerhelp, and it is commonly known the entire population wasn't behind the movement, there were a significant quantity of Americans (as much as a 1/3 of the nation) who actually actively struggled the independence movement (Tories). Does that could indict America as being a flawed concept like a country?